{"id":9315,"date":"2024-11-12T09:24:43","date_gmt":"2024-11-12T16:24:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/?p=9315"},"modified":"2024-11-12T09:24:43","modified_gmt":"2024-11-12T16:24:43","slug":"ecosia-and-qwant-two-european-search-engines-join-forces-on-an-index-to-shrink-reliance-on-big-tech","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/2024\/11\/12\/ecosia-and-qwant-two-european-search-engines-join-forces-on-an-index-to-shrink-reliance-on-big-tech\/","title":{"rendered":"Ecosia and Qwant, Two European Search Engines, Join Forces on an Index to Shrink Reliance on Big Tech"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

After DuckDuckGo was busted in a deal with Microsoft, I had started using other privacy focused search engines, and Qwant was one of my favorites. But I just don’t trust these companies as they can too easily be taken over by shares and board seats… And that’s when I started running my own privacy proxy search engines (SearxNG and Whoogle<\/a>) that strip tracking elements and conceal your IP from the search engines, and with SearxNG you have control over what search engines it queries on your behalf. And I’m not that keen on the AI angle being employed, as that will just be a fancy way of censoring content and feeding you propaganda. But this paragraph below is interesting in the big tech companies sharing click and query data with competitors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n

\u201cThe opportunity just has gotten a lot better,\u201d he said. \u201cWith the [EU\u2019s] Digital Markets Act<\/a>, for the first time, \u2018click and query data,\u2019 for example, is going to be shared by other search engines \u2014 so we have access to that. Also access to platforms is different than it used to be. So we\u2019ve been thinking about this for a long time, but now it\u2019s the right moment to actually do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n

https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2024\/11\/11\/ecosia-and-qwant-two-european-search-engines-join-forces-on-building-an-index-to-shrink-reliance-on-big-tech\/<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n

<\/div><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n

By Natasha Lomas & Ivan Mehta<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Qwant<\/a>, France\u2019s privacy-focused search engine, and Ecosia<\/a>, a Berlin-based not-for-profit search engine that uses ad revenue to fund tree planting and other climate-focused initiatives, are joining forces on a joint venture to develop their own European search index.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The pair hopes this move will help drive innovation in their respective search engines \u2014 including and especially around generative AI \u2014 as well as reducing dependence on search indexes provided by tech giants Microsoft (Bing) and Google. Both currently rely on Bing\u2019s search APIs while Ecosia also uses Google\u2019s search results.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Rising API costs are one clear motivator for the move to shrink this Big Tech dependency, with Microsoft massively hiking prices for Bing\u2019s search APIs last year<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Neither Ecosia nor Qwant will stop using Bing or Google altogether. However, they aim to diversify the core tech supporting their services with their own index. It will lower their operational costs, and serve as a technical base to fuel their own product development as GenAI technologies take up a more central role in many consumer-facing digital services.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Both search engines have already dabbled in integrating GenAI features. Expect more on this front, although they aren\u2019t planning to develop AI model development themselves. They say they will continue to rely on API access to major platforms\u2019 large language models (LLMs) to power these additions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The pair is also open to other European firms joining in with their push for more tech stack sovereignty \u2014 at least as fellow customers for the search index, as they plan to license access via an API. Other forms of partnership could be considered too, they told TechCrunch.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe door is open and we are ready to talk to anyone,\u201d said Qwant CEO Olivier Abecassis. \u201cBut we also want to focus and really secure the capacity to invest with our existing shareholders.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cWe know that we will fuel the company for the next years, and we know that our shareholders are ready to support it, and really expect us to move fast,\u201d he added. \u201cWe will discuss with investors to speed up the developments and to do more \u2014 and with others to join in the partnership. So the plan is really to move as fast as possible.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

AI generating risks and opportunities<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

AI is driving a dual sense of urgency for both parties, as it rapidly creates a landscape of new opportunities and potential pitfalls.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cWith the emergence of AI tools there is a different demand now for a search index,\u201d Ecosia CEO Christian Kroll suggested. \u201cThe two providers, Bing and Google, are basically getting more reluctant to make their index accessible. And of course, as a search engine, we need an index. So that\u2019s partially why we want to make sure we have access.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cBut also there is now a unique moment where you can use that type of index to build a very different experience \u2014 using generative AI to create a different experience \u2014 and we don\u2019t want to be restricted in using that technology.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kroll also pointed to a regulatory environment in Europe that is keen to foster homegrown tech innovation in order to bolster the bloc\u2019s strategic autonomy as another reason for making a bet on a homebrew search index now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe opportunity just has gotten a lot better,\u201d he said. \u201cWith the [EU\u2019s] Digital Markets Act<\/a>, for the first time, \u2018click and query data,\u2019 for example, is going to be shared by other search engines \u2014 so we have access to that. Also access to platforms is different than it used to be. So we\u2019ve been thinking about this for a long time, but now it\u2019s the right moment to actually do it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cWe believe that if we want to get a meaningful GenAI user experience, we need access to LLM models,\u201d added Abecassis. \u201cBut we also need access to search tech.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The combination of GenAI models with up-to-date information pulled in through search queries will be key to advancing search product utility, he argued.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cWe believe that the combination of the two will be the next user experience for search,\u201d he said. \u201cSearch and GenAI are not exactly the same. We believe that both will take benefit from the other, and the mix will be unique.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cGoogle decided to have two strong products, but not mix them. And I can understand when I look at the legacy business model of Google. But in the future, something will happen between [these technologies] and that\u2019s what we want to experience. And for that, any player on the market will need access to a search technology. That\u2019s why we want to propose [this] to the market.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Towards a European perspective<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

The pair\u2019s new joint venture, which is being called European Search Perspective, is being set up with a 50:50 ownership split. (Note: EUP is their chosen acronym, rather than ESP.)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ecosia and Qwant are not disclosing how much they\u2019re each investing but said their shareholders are supportive. Plus, as a separate entity, EUP will sit outside the former\u2019s not-for-profit business model \u2014 allowing it to raise external capital (assuming investors can be persuaded to get on board).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The index is expected to start serving France-based search engine traffic for Ecosia and Qwant by the first quarter of next year. It will then expand to include a \u201csignificant portion\u201d of traffic in Germany by the end of 2025.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

English would be the third language they\u2019d look to add, the pair said, adding that more European languages could follow in the future if momentum builds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the operational side, Qwant\u2019s engineering team will be moving to EUP, while Abecassis \u2014 who took on the CEO role at the search engine just over a year ago \u2014 will be CEO of the joint venture, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Qwant was acquired by a cloud technology group called Synfonium<\/a> last year, which is backed by the founders of French cloud computing firm OVHcloud, with a goal of building a \u201cEuropean champion\u201d for cloud services.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Discussing the plan for EUP in a call with TechCrunch, Abecassis explained Qwant had been working on developing its own search index even before it was acquired by Synfondium. Those efforts will now move over to EUP, he confirmed, with both team and IP assets transferring over.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Joining forces with Ecosia bolsters the chance of success, he suggested, as it expands the pool of data available for developing the index, as well as increasing investment in the project and enabling faster development, such as by being able to hire more engineers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Ecosia has around 20 million monthly users globally, while Qwant has some 6 million users in France.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cIf we want to be really efficient, we have to involve more people\u2026 and be more ambitious,\u201d said Abecassis, recounting how Qwant approached Ecosia to ask it to consider a partnership on developing the search index.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cFor Qwant, it\u2019s a major opportunity to build better tech \u2014 because search technologies are good if they are used\u2026 So the more tech is used, the more money you can invest, but also the more data you get. One of the reasons why Google is so strong is it\u2019s based on tons of data.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The two firms share a few characteristics that make a partnership look like a good cultural fit, with both search alternatives being developed in Europe and having business models that seek to do something different compared to Big Tech\u2019s standard surveillance capitalism playbook. EUP, meanwhile, will be headquartered in Paris.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cBuilding such a technology from scratch is almost impossible,\u201d added Abecassis. \u201cThe more user[s] we have and the more data sets we have will make the technology more valuable.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kroll said Ecosia is bringing expertise, data and financing to the partnership \u2014 noting that as well as developing the search engine there will be other technologies that EUP will need to develop, such as widgets that can be served as part of search results.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The pair expects the partnership to boost the efficiency of search results they can deliver their respective users, as EUP hones its ranking algorithms \u2014 even as each search engine will continue to develop its own distinctive user experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Search ranking alternatives<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Rival search engine Brave, which much like Qwant has a sales pitch that foregrounds privacy, has already built its own search index. It even removed the last API calls for text-based searches to Bing in April last year<\/a> when it touted its service as a \u201creal alternative to Big Tech search.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Asked about this, Abecassis suggested Brave\u2019s index cleaves closer to Google and Bing in the technical approach. Whereas he emphasized that EUP is being built from scratch, claiming it will be \u201cvery different\u201d and will deliver more diverse search results.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cWe don\u2019t just copy Google or Microsoft and learn from them,\u201d he stressed. \u201cWe really index all the documents that are available. We understand the documents, and then we have a team that works to find the best match between a document and the [search] query.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cSo it is true that there are probably some shortcuts to build such a tech by copying the main guys. We decided to go in a different direction and build everything from scratch. It\u2019s harder but, we believe, it\u2019s more sustainable.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

One big difference compared to Big Tech search is that EUP\u2019s search index will serve up \u201cprivacy-first\u201d results. What does that mean in practice? Abecassis said this is a result of tech developed by Qwant that does not personalize search results based on the user (as Google does).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cWe\u2019re going to continue to work without any [user] data [personalizing results],\u201d he said. \u201cThen we will improve our algorithm based on the data that are available.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cI think it\u2019s a big win \u2014 big privacy win,\u201d added Kroll of the choice of technical approach. But he also emphasized the strategic value of having search infrastructure that\u2019s made in Europe at a time of increasing geopolitical instability.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cFrom a European perspective\u2026 what does [search infrastructure reliance] mean for the dependency of the European Union? Especially considering [the U.S] election results\u2026 If the U.S. government decided that they would not want to provide search results to Europeans anymore, we in Europe would have to go back to phone books.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThere is a privacy element, but then there\u2019s also an element of data sovereignty, which I think is very important,\u201d he added. \u201cI of course hope that the U.S. and Europe will always stay strong allies. But I don\u2019t know where the U.S. is heading, and I also don\u2019t know where Europe is heading. So this is a very important element.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A costly business?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n

TechCrunch asked Brave about its own decision to build a search index. It told us that prior to switching to its own tech it \u201calways risked Microsoft imposing restrictions on us or simply cutting us off\u201d \u2014 so the move was intended to free the business from a risky dependency.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cAccording to our quality assessment team, which does blinded assessments for quality of results, we are on par with Google and better than Bing in the countries we measure (those in which Brave Search is the default for Brave browser users),\u201d the company also told us, adding that Brave Search is \u201cthe fastest growing search engine since Bing\u201d with over 1 billion queries per month.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Discussing the costs of developing the index, Brave described the process as \u201clong and very expensive\u201d \u2014 pointing back to its 2021 acquisition of the open source Tailcat search engine<\/a>, a technology whose development it said dates back to 2014.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThere is a reason why there are only three fully-fledged independent search indexes in the West,\u201d Brave added.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The company licenses its search index via the Brave Search API<\/a>. The API is being used by \u201cmany leading companies in the AI space,\u201d per Brave, which added that it\u2019s quickly becoming a \u201csignificant\u201d source of revenue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

TechCrunch also asked search engineer Peter Popov<\/a> about the costs involved in building a search index. Popov spent 15 years at Russian search giant Yandex, working on core search and ranking, and is now VP of ads at VK.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cVery roughly, a search index, which includes hardware and the cost of writing a search, does not cost much more than $10 million,\u201d Popov told us, couching such an outlay as \u201cnot a very large investment.\u201d He suggested that advances in AI have made it easier to produce quality search results without needing vast amounts of users feeding in data,\u201dby using modern LLM models that contain knowledge of search semantics out of the box.\u201d

At the same time, he warned there is growing challenge over where search bots can \u2014 or can\u2019t \u2014 freely crawl. This is a problem as a search index needs wide access to information sources in order to usefully serve users\u2019 queries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cProprietary platforms are often quite unfriendly to attempts to collect information,\u201d Popov told TechCrunch.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cCreating a search index for the entire Internet is not such a difficult task from a technical point of view. The volume of useful information on the internet grows more slowly than computing power. By the way, one of the problems for scaling AI is precisely the relatively small volume of such information.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u201cThe useful-for-information-search internet is not that big,\u201d he continued. \u201cThere is no internet of sites to search right now. And wait, of these [mainstream web] platforms, only Wikipedia is open to search. So that leaves Wikipedia search.

\u201cAfter Wikipedia there are not many useful sites like arxiv.org or large online libraries. Information of this kind can be used in two ways \u2014 either by providing data during network training, or by feeding the neural network with search results during inference, in which case the search is one of the components of LLM working under the hood.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In other words, in order for a search index to be useful, it also needs to be able to freely crawl the internet. But with Big Tech more jealously guarding info inside its own platforms these days, as giants compete to monetize user data afresh for training LLMs, this is also complicating the business of trying to get out from under their shadow by indexing the internet for search\u2026 From a rock to a hard place, then.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

After DuckDuckGo was busted in a deal with Microsoft, I had started using other privacy focused search engines, and Qwant was one of my favorites. But I just don’t trust these companies as they can too easily be taken over by shares and board seats… And that’s when I started running my own privacy proxy […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-9315","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-tech"],"blocksy_meta":[],"featured_image_src":null,"author_info":{"display_name":"Jason","author_link":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/author\/jturning\/"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9315","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9315"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9315\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":9316,"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9315\/revisions\/9316"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9315"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9315"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jasonsblog.ddns.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9315"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}